Thursday, June 22, 2017

New Ecumenical Liturgy at Francis' Skunk Works?

The "Skunk Works" is the unofficial name for the U.S. top-secret aircraft development program. Veritas Vincit reports that rumor has it that Francis is developing a top-secret ecumenical liturgy that will be acceptable to Catholics, Lutherans and Anglicans. (The obvious joke: "But we already have one!")

Is Francis the kind of guy that would have his own top-secret theological Skunk Works?

You can read the story there, but the key difficulty is the consecration. The Bear will let his intelligent readers work that one out on their own.

One proposed solution is to have each celebrant silently pray his or her own formula.

The Bear stresses this is a rumor reported by an Italian journalist who says his sources are "usually good." As to the truth of that rumor, the Bear cannot offer an informed opinion.The Bear does not usually go in for rumors and seers and the like, preferring to stick to hard evidence and reasonable inferences drawn therefrom.

This might easily be a hoax. In the absence of evidence there is no real reason to suspect otherwise. The Bear is not passing it along for the purpose of the truth of the matter asserted, as the old courtroom hearsay exception goes.

There is something here, however, that is worth considering.

As ridiculous as this sounds, the Bear's reaction was not shocked surprise. In fact, the ecumenical trend lines in the Church are leading to something like this sooner or later. Francis is the perfect man to make it happen. The only thing that makes the Bear tend to doubt it is that no provision is made for Evangelicals.

What is worth considering is this:

Intelligent, well-informed Catholics cannot dismiss such a rumor out of hand. We are at a time in Church history when we can imagine that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass might mean sacrificing the sacrifice in the name of the illusion of communion with non-Catholic sects.

Our position is similar to that of a husband who hears a rumor that his wife is having an affair. Depending on the wife, he would instantly dismiss it as ridiculous or entertain the truth of the rumor - at least for a moment.

14 comments:



  1. from the mind of Dr. Stuart Reiss 
    Heres a sneak preview of the new liturgy.....

    V. Positive thoughts be with you.
    R. Likewise with you.
    V. Lift up your hands.
    R. We lift them up to the sky.
    V. Let us give thanks to creation.
    R. It is good and green.

    It is truly good and green, our duty and our salvation,
    always and everywhere to care for the environment,
    and to welcome the immigrant,
    in imitation of Jesus the itinerant preacher,
    who made all people happy, except the powerful,
    was born of the Virgin Mary who felt betrayed by God,
    and condemned nothing,
    while judging no one.

    Fulfilling our will and gaining popularity among the people,
    we lend a helping hand to the poor,
    so as to break the bonds of poverty, and to manifest equality.

    And so, with all the United Nations and every religion,
    we declare our glory,

    Sent from my iPhoneDr Stuart Reiss 15 hours ago
    Heres a sneak preview of the new liturgy.....

    V. Positive thoughts be with you.
    R. Likewise with you.
    V. Lift up your hands.
    R. We lift them up to the sky.
    V. Let us give thanks to creation.
    R. It is good and green.

    It is truly good and green, our duty and our salvation,
    always and everywhere to care for the environment,
    and to welcome the immigrant,
    in imitation of Jesus the itinerant preacher,
    who made all people happy, except the powerful,
    was born of the Virgin Mary who felt betrayed by God,
    and condemned nothing,
    while judging no one.

    Fulfilling our will and gaining popularity among the people,
    we lend a helping hand to the poor,
    so as to break the bonds of poverty, and to manifest equality.

    And so, with all the United Nations and every religion,
    we declare our glory,
    as with one voice we acclaim:

    Happy, Happy, Happy, we adore
    Mother Earth in all her glory.
    Nirvana she suppliest.
    Rigid is he who invokes the name of the Lord.
    Nirvana she suppliest.
    Mother Earth in all her glory.
    Nirvana she suppliest.
    Rigid is he who invokes the name of the Lord.
    Nirvana she suppliest.

    Seattle kim😜

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Funny. Has everyone forgotten the real joint Lutheran-Catholic prayer service released by the Vatican last year in connection with the whoop di doo about Martin Luther? The liturgy is not the hard part. The hard part is the Church accepting Protestant sects as completely legitimate and on an equal basis with the Church. And I think we have crossed that bridge and burned it behind us.

      Delete
  2. Lutherans and Anglicans (save a few small splinter sects) accept abortion on demand and sodo-'marriage.'

    If the goal is to be in union with them, one will be in union with their theology and social teachings as well.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Sorry forgot to sign the last post--Seattle Kim.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sorry, too late. You are hereby banned for 30 seconds.

      Delete
    2. Haha good old Bear!

      Seattle kim

      Delete
  4. This project well precedes Pope Francis' pontificate and Vatican II. It is also all over the place within liturgical Protestantism. Non-liturgical Protestantism has it's own projects but you are going to be hard pressed to get those two to sit down together.

    Jesuits are not known to be liturgical sticklers -- perhaps because there are no Jesuit variants of the liturgy (both Divine and LOTH) as you find in other Monastic Orders. Pope Francis' liturgical tastes are well known and Owl would hazard a guess that, like many other Jesuits, he falls on the wrong side of Dominus Iesus, except for the parts about the authority of the Roman Pontiff and only because he is now Pontiff.

    Owl cannot imagine that such a project is high on the list of priorities for Pope Francis, though it is obviously something that he would passively encourage and allow to be implemented "unofficially". As Great Bear said, he is the man for the job.

    Owl doesn't think that the Words of Consecration are the issue -- compare
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words_of_Institution

    but rather partially the other private prayers that are said but more importantly the liturgical action itself. If you look at the Catholic Liturgical Action -- words and physical movements -- there is VERY clear worship and adoration of the Eucharist going on. That is a huge problem if the Catholic celebrant is prostrating himself before the consecrated host and all Catholics in the congregation also giving adoration to the host.

    The major problem with all of this nonsense is thinking that unity of worship means conformity of worship. Untrue. Otherwise there would be projects trying to create a bastardization of the Roman Rite and the Byzantine Rite. Unity in worship comes from unity in Spirit. Divine Worship is a participation in the life of the Trinity done with the Son, through the Spirit, directed towards the Father.

    No committee can manufacture that because it is something that can only be achieved through grace as a pure gift from God. It is something that man must be elected to, invited into, and drawn in through his own free will by God Himself. That, at its core, is what will always separate Catholics from Protestants. For Protestants, what is done on Sunday is man's creation in response to God. For Catholics, it is God's creation in response to man -- man only has a passive part in it. Man created for the Sabbath vs. the Sabbath created by God.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Is it only to bore everyone to remind them of the Protestant brain trust that was brought in to help draft the new liturgy at Vatican II. Bear still thinks Vatican II smells like two-week old fish.

      Delete
  5. lol, I posted a comment over there saying that I thought that this looked super sketch. It wasn't cleared.

    Veritas Vincit, indeed...perhaps Censor Vincit?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not surprised. A lot of people got suckered maybe a year ago by the hoax "Francis Declares All Religions True" or something. This is a bit more plausible, but I agree that it is most likely a hoax. And I don't go around telling people how to run their blogs, but I don't think I have ever moderated a post based on content, maybe a couple of anonymous ones, and one that kept posting stuff on his personal end-times hobbyhorse. I bet I can count on two paws all the posts I've moderated in four years. (The same clumsy paws that have probably accidentally deleted more than I have moderated - the buttons are too close together!)

      Again, I just thought it was interesting that my immediate reaction was to entertain the truth of it. And it was too tempting to imagine a top-secret Francis Ecumenical Skunk Works!

      Delete
    2. Owl considers stuff like this to be true things that are planted/leaded in a skewed a way as to make people look a bit nutty. Then when the final thing really does see the light of day, people have already heard of it and what is produced is less nutty and thus seems reasonable.

      If one's goal is manufactured worship in common, then Owl considers that such a person thinks that religion is man made. Owl then has very little to do with such a person.

      Delete
    3. Bear shall in his mercy - since that is the order of the day - overlook Owl's lese-majeste in implying the Bear is "nutty," since he agrees with Owl's points. Yes, Bear believes we are sensitized in many different ways to radical change. I think there is a drop of truth in hoaxes, because they do not work otherwise. To give a simple example, a hoax that President Trump is abolishing immigration laws and allowing anyone in the U.S. who can make it here doesn't work on any level. The recent satire of the Bear on the new Jesuit top dog (as well as his Cardinal Marx advice column satires) work because they are based on a keen appreciation for the truth of these people. For satire to work, you have to know your target well.

      Delete

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